Thanks for bringing me up to speed Jacob - at the kidlit webinar last night I was out of the loop on the references (always behind the news ball, especially while in a final art deadline cave). (Nice to "see" you there!). This is really thoughtful, and you're helping keep the conversation from being too all or nothing. Jennifer's words; "Alarming Quotes get a lot more clicks than Nuanced Philosophical Arguments." Yes.
No problem! Was worth wrestling with. It was nice to see you too! I tried working but couldn’t lol. Too long of a day! Hopefully, the post is a nice coda for some after a long week.
In a bizarre way, I think Barnett proves his own point, by virtue of the fact that this ended up in a BOOK. This wasn't a random comment posted to Substack or said off the cuff in an interview. Presumably, dozens of people reviewed the manuscript, from editors to proofreaders to publicists, etc. and no one flagged the comment as problematic. Perhaps there's more tone-deafness in the 'adults' in the room than anyone wants to admit.
For sure. I do think some it is exasperated by his current position as ambassador combined with the crazy times the industry finds itself in. When he wrote it he wasn't and the world was a little less nuts (another casualty of a slow publication cycle). But, I'd be curious if an editor flagged it all.
I think he must mean all the really low effort stuff. There's a lot of people out there trying to pump out as much ai generated stories and images for children's books. I can't imagine that statement would apply to all the hard working illustrators and writers that are out there giving it their all.
Thanks for this. I'm under such a rock I would never have known the context or inciting incident.
This makes me think about the whole industry.
I recently did a self-imposed study on award winners and runners up to see what "made a good children's book" and I read them with my own kids and asked some follow up questions. We analyzed the pictures and the text to see if it was text that made the book shine vs the pictures or both (I don't think you can truly separate either for one wouldn't exist without the other, but it's worth it to see the synergy). For some of them, the stories were indeed endured. Others were surprising. And it makes me think of Mac's position which is that PBs are made by adults, lauded and praised by adults and authors have to hit that sweet spot to entertain kids and make the books adult-worthy because of the industry.
The ones that we would read again were a mix of ridiculous and absurd (similar to Mac's style) and the surprising ones were the non-fiction ones that swept us away. It makes me think of the industry, including awards, doesn't really celebrate kid-lit at all, but what other way can the books get into the kids hands. And the ones that get celebrated are what adults think makes a good kids book.
n addition to everything you're saying, as a writer trying to get my foot in the door, this quote from Afoma really resonated:
"There’s a confidence in the way he moves through this book—a certain literary ease—that’s written for an audience already on his side. If you’re already there with him, it reads as smart and refreshing. If you’re not already there, it reads as someone daring you to disagree from a position you can’t quite reach."
It's that "position" of "having made it" that is so difficult and that can indeed sometimes feel like it's own chasm.
p.s. Stop recommending other amazing Substacks like Afoma's. Your recs are making my newsletter TBR grow exponentially
p.p.s. Thanks for recommending other amazing Substacks. I love it :)
Kidlit is weird in that kids largely don't have disposable incomes - so adults also become the purchasers of books and the gatekeepers play a large role in saying what is good. It can be hard to have a great sense of what kids like by sales numbers alone. It's all tainted and hard to figure. But the good news is that school visits and book events (and our own kids) do allow us to see what is truly loved and cherished.
One of the things that makes great writers and illustrators great is a sense of taste - hopefully fully informed by the intended audience. This can lead to sense that they are above everyone else. Some might see this as elevated taste while others might perceive it as snobbiness. Or both! My interactions with the top of the food chain have been good (not Mac or Jon) and they've been full of grace and kindness, even with this kind of elevated taste.
I think your comments about condescension are key here. Barnett is not uplifting kidlit. He’s being elitist. He’s shouting from a position of privilege (white privilege, male privilege, published privilege) and lecturing down to those he deems lesser than himself. It’s smug and gross and disrespectful to everyone in the trenches of the mid lists and below. Instead of tearing down and complaining about what’s wrong, he could have talked about what’s right. Instead he stood on high and cast his judgement on those he felt were beneath him. None of us need that. And none of us need Mac Burnett. Or the other Mac Burnett’s of the world.
If you want someone to cheer you on or hold you up or, yes, help you hone your craft and get better, I’d love to engage with you. Let’s build our craft together. We don’t need Big KidLit to tell us how to get better.
TBH, I am disappointed in the ad hominem attacks. We shouldn't be surprised by his comment when we read the Picture Book Proclamation of which he is a signatory. I am ok with hyperbole. And criticism is a tool for improvement. I am new to this art form and still getting my bearings. But the cited quote reminded me of something I was told in grad school, "Museums are full of paintings and not much art." And at the very least, he has us all expressing our love for and of children's literature. To me, that's encouraging.
I felt weird calling the attacks out by name or individually - people react in anger and are processing. But some have crossed a line into a weird place. I've never really seen a good write up on what the proclamation is problematic - I see it as largely good? In my original draft I had a line about the absolute fact that behind it all there's a foundation of doing what's best for children and what they read. This is 100% a good thing - that everyone should be behind.
Good analysis of the situation here. Honestly, I feel like if he had added the caveat, "in an era where we're getting bombarded with picture books from AI "publishers" on Amazon...", he might have actually been accurate. The curation process in publishing is a quality control process. I do feel like there are some didactic messages in kidlit, but often they're pretty subtle about it and I often hear from editors and creators that being ham-handedly didactic is a great way of not selling your book.
I should think the best kidlit authors would be the ones who feel like kids themselves on the inside. The ones who had to be dragged into quasi-adulthood kicking and screaming. The ones who find illustrations like yours delightful and can't get enough of them.
Thanks for sharing Jacob. i appreciate your thoroughness of thought. A Creator puts a bit of themself into everthing they create. I see the Courage Love, Beauty, Wisdom, Warmth, & Fun in your writing and art. I am glad there was an apology by Mac Barnett. i struggle with seeing enough goodness in the world & that one feels like a win.
A friend told me about what Barnett said , and I was really disappointed to read something like that written by someone who can have so much influence .
If he really thinks that , it could have been said / written in so many batter ways to help inspire and encourage people , rather than make them angry and feel discouraged .
Shouldn't we ask children what a good book is? Experienced adults who have been working with children for a long time sometimes become so confident that they stop asking children. And that's when they may start to make mistakes.
Thank you for this, Jacob! It has definitely been a crazy week with that quote. But we also have to think of it as a hyperbole. It's all based on Mac's own opinion and standards and he goes to this extreme to make a point. That kids deserve much better. This was great!
Thanks for bringing me up to speed Jacob - at the kidlit webinar last night I was out of the loop on the references (always behind the news ball, especially while in a final art deadline cave). (Nice to "see" you there!). This is really thoughtful, and you're helping keep the conversation from being too all or nothing. Jennifer's words; "Alarming Quotes get a lot more clicks than Nuanced Philosophical Arguments." Yes.
No problem! Was worth wrestling with. It was nice to see you too! I tried working but couldn’t lol. Too long of a day! Hopefully, the post is a nice coda for some after a long week.
In a bizarre way, I think Barnett proves his own point, by virtue of the fact that this ended up in a BOOK. This wasn't a random comment posted to Substack or said off the cuff in an interview. Presumably, dozens of people reviewed the manuscript, from editors to proofreaders to publicists, etc. and no one flagged the comment as problematic. Perhaps there's more tone-deafness in the 'adults' in the room than anyone wants to admit.
For sure. I do think some it is exasperated by his current position as ambassador combined with the crazy times the industry finds itself in. When he wrote it he wasn't and the world was a little less nuts (another casualty of a slow publication cycle). But, I'd be curious if an editor flagged it all.
I think he must mean all the really low effort stuff. There's a lot of people out there trying to pump out as much ai generated stories and images for children's books. I can't imagine that statement would apply to all the hard working illustrators and writers that are out there giving it their all.
Thanks for this. I'm under such a rock I would never have known the context or inciting incident.
This makes me think about the whole industry.
I recently did a self-imposed study on award winners and runners up to see what "made a good children's book" and I read them with my own kids and asked some follow up questions. We analyzed the pictures and the text to see if it was text that made the book shine vs the pictures or both (I don't think you can truly separate either for one wouldn't exist without the other, but it's worth it to see the synergy). For some of them, the stories were indeed endured. Others were surprising. And it makes me think of Mac's position which is that PBs are made by adults, lauded and praised by adults and authors have to hit that sweet spot to entertain kids and make the books adult-worthy because of the industry.
The ones that we would read again were a mix of ridiculous and absurd (similar to Mac's style) and the surprising ones were the non-fiction ones that swept us away. It makes me think of the industry, including awards, doesn't really celebrate kid-lit at all, but what other way can the books get into the kids hands. And the ones that get celebrated are what adults think makes a good kids book.
n addition to everything you're saying, as a writer trying to get my foot in the door, this quote from Afoma really resonated:
"There’s a confidence in the way he moves through this book—a certain literary ease—that’s written for an audience already on his side. If you’re already there with him, it reads as smart and refreshing. If you’re not already there, it reads as someone daring you to disagree from a position you can’t quite reach."
It's that "position" of "having made it" that is so difficult and that can indeed sometimes feel like it's own chasm.
p.s. Stop recommending other amazing Substacks like Afoma's. Your recs are making my newsletter TBR grow exponentially
p.p.s. Thanks for recommending other amazing Substacks. I love it :)
Kidlit is weird in that kids largely don't have disposable incomes - so adults also become the purchasers of books and the gatekeepers play a large role in saying what is good. It can be hard to have a great sense of what kids like by sales numbers alone. It's all tainted and hard to figure. But the good news is that school visits and book events (and our own kids) do allow us to see what is truly loved and cherished.
One of the things that makes great writers and illustrators great is a sense of taste - hopefully fully informed by the intended audience. This can lead to sense that they are above everyone else. Some might see this as elevated taste while others might perceive it as snobbiness. Or both! My interactions with the top of the food chain have been good (not Mac or Jon) and they've been full of grace and kindness, even with this kind of elevated taste.
I have a few more substacks to recommend lol!
For the most part, the authors I’ve met are all gracious and kind. It’s nice to know this exists in the kid lit sphere.
Bring on the recs!
I think your comments about condescension are key here. Barnett is not uplifting kidlit. He’s being elitist. He’s shouting from a position of privilege (white privilege, male privilege, published privilege) and lecturing down to those he deems lesser than himself. It’s smug and gross and disrespectful to everyone in the trenches of the mid lists and below. Instead of tearing down and complaining about what’s wrong, he could have talked about what’s right. Instead he stood on high and cast his judgement on those he felt were beneath him. None of us need that. And none of us need Mac Burnett. Or the other Mac Burnett’s of the world.
If you want someone to cheer you on or hold you up or, yes, help you hone your craft and get better, I’d love to engage with you. Let’s build our craft together. We don’t need Big KidLit to tell us how to get better.
We know the assignment.
TBH, I am disappointed in the ad hominem attacks. We shouldn't be surprised by his comment when we read the Picture Book Proclamation of which he is a signatory. I am ok with hyperbole. And criticism is a tool for improvement. I am new to this art form and still getting my bearings. But the cited quote reminded me of something I was told in grad school, "Museums are full of paintings and not much art." And at the very least, he has us all expressing our love for and of children's literature. To me, that's encouraging.
I felt weird calling the attacks out by name or individually - people react in anger and are processing. But some have crossed a line into a weird place. I've never really seen a good write up on what the proclamation is problematic - I see it as largely good? In my original draft I had a line about the absolute fact that behind it all there's a foundation of doing what's best for children and what they read. This is 100% a good thing - that everyone should be behind.
Good analysis of the situation here. Honestly, I feel like if he had added the caveat, "in an era where we're getting bombarded with picture books from AI "publishers" on Amazon...", he might have actually been accurate. The curation process in publishing is a quality control process. I do feel like there are some didactic messages in kidlit, but often they're pretty subtle about it and I often hear from editors and creators that being ham-handedly didactic is a great way of not selling your book.
I should think the best kidlit authors would be the ones who feel like kids themselves on the inside. The ones who had to be dragged into quasi-adulthood kicking and screaming. The ones who find illustrations like yours delightful and can't get enough of them.
Thank you, Virginia! I’m with you 💯
Great wrap up of the entire discourse this week. I loved seeing more perspectives. Thanks for sharing my piece, too.
Thank you, Afoma! I cannot say thank you enough - your piece was so clarifying when I was in a kind of funk about it all.
Thanks for sharing Jacob. i appreciate your thoroughness of thought. A Creator puts a bit of themself into everthing they create. I see the Courage Love, Beauty, Wisdom, Warmth, & Fun in your writing and art. I am glad there was an apology by Mac Barnett. i struggle with seeing enough goodness in the world & that one feels like a win.
Well said (As usual). I also really appreciated Afoma's article earlier this week. It helped me process my thoughts about the quote.
This was good to read .
A friend told me about what Barnett said , and I was really disappointed to read something like that written by someone who can have so much influence .
If he really thinks that , it could have been said / written in so many batter ways to help inspire and encourage people , rather than make them angry and feel discouraged .
Thanks for sharing your thoughts .
Agree 💯… hopefully he learns something from this too
I hope so . 🤞
Thank you for this analysis of our week in kidlit. I appreciate the approach to your thoughts and how we can grow from this experience.
Thank you, Susan 💛
Shouldn't we ask children what a good book is? Experienced adults who have been working with children for a long time sometimes become so confident that they stop asking children. And that's when they may start to make mistakes.
Could not agree more. Who we are writing for vs writing for an industry
Thanks for this round up, Jacob. Well done (as always)
Thanks. Didn't want to lol. But important, I think.
Thank you for this, Jacob! It has definitely been a crazy week with that quote. But we also have to think of it as a hyperbole. It's all based on Mac's own opinion and standards and he goes to this extreme to make a point. That kids deserve much better. This was great!